Heather: What was your motivation for displaying the words "The Koran Needs to
be Flushed!" on your church sign on Saturday, May 21, 2005?
Creighton: I had read and heard reports that some of our soldiers in Guantanmao
Bay had flushed Korans in attempts to make the detainees speak. This was
reported by Newsweek, which caused rioting in the Muslim world. The reports, it
was said, were made in error and they were retracted and declared false, with
much apology by the government and media outlets. I looked at our blank sign,
pondered and prayed as to what message we could tell people in our community
for that week. I remembered the words of Condi Rice that appropriate actions
would be taken against any soldiers if the Koran flushing were true. To me, this
appeared as a government endorsement of the Muslim faith, in that they were
agreeing that Korans had been desecrated. Since these flushings were false, I
thought if it hadn't been done what better place for a book of lies. Thus hatched
from my mind the phrase. I called on a fellow member to help me place the letters
and the deed was done. So my motive was to let people in our community know
how much respect we had for the Koran.
H: Tell me about the kind of feedback your sign generated.
C: Our feedback did not really begin until Tuesday, May 24, 2005. Over the
weekend we had one attempt on Saturday to remove the word "Koran" in which
the letters were simply taken off the board and neatly stacked at the sign. The
word was returned due to our first amendment right of free speech. Also, there
were only two phone calls that were negative. Comments en masse did not begin
until the article in the Daily Courier. The comments overall were about 50/50.
H: About how many phone calls would you say that you received about the sign?
C: About 150. People from all over the continental United States left messages at
the church, at our home, in my room, and on my cell.
H: What other forms of feedback did you receive?
C: I would say that we received about 250 emails and about 150 letters, as well as
about $500 worth of donations and several books, some pro-Islam and some
anti-Islam, including a hardback copy of the Koran. Feedback from the local
community was mostly positive. I was invited by Jim Bishop to be on WCAB for an
interview. We took about 8 calls that morning from the community. 7 were positive
and 1 was neutral. I was also told by several people that they had written positive
editorials to the local paper, however only the negative ones appeared in the
paper, such is the intention of the media - to distort or slant in their favor. The
media has taken to peddling bad news, slanted news, and propaganda instead of
factual news.
H: Did you mean to offend anyone when you put up the sign?
C: Not intentionally, however I knew that liberals, Muslims, and ecumenical
Christians would find it offensive and politically incorrect. Thanks to the media,
they blew it out of proportion. As far as offense goes, what can be more offensive
than the gospel of Jesus Christ to a lost and dying world? Notice the words of
Paul in 1 Thess. 2:4-5, "But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the
gospel, even so we speak; no as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.
For either at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloak of
covetousness; God is witness."
H: How did your church members respond to the sign?
C: While the media was bothersome for a few, our members stood behind me in
my stand. To those who were bothered by the media coverage, I offer my
apologies. We were tried by fire and through the crucible our church was brought
closer together.
H: Did you realize the full implications of the sign when you put it up?
C: No. I learned the world is a smaller place than we realized. I found that local
news can become global news in a New York minute. I realize as a pastor my
responsibility to God, to my congregation and that my actions, for good or ill, will
reflect on them.
H: If you had the chance to go back what would you do differently, if anything?
C: I do not regret the stand that I took, but I would have refrained from singling
out one false religion and instead lifted up the living and written Word of God.
H: Why did you take the sign down before the week's end?
C: Baptist officials on all levels contacted me expressing concern over our
missionaries overseas. They declared the doom of all outreach to Muslims and
the ignition of a new jihad. After prayer and consultation with local ministers I
decided that I should take the sign down on Wednesday. I didn't want my actions
to cause the death of anyone, Muslim or Christian. The sign had already made its
point by this time and I saw no reason, other than earthly pride, that I would have
needed to keep it up any longer.
H: Did you receive any personal threats as a result of the sign?
C: No.
H: Did you get any feedback from Muslims?
C: Yes. The first Muslim I learned about was Seema Riley of Rutherford county. I
respect Dr. Riley as a person, though we had not met, and even though we
disagree on the issue of Christianity v. Islam, I think we could get along fine. Dr.
Riley was offended, but I pray that through the dialogue that ensued that she was
able to see a Biblical viewpoint. Secondly, we met Iman, who drove us to
Greenville for the MSNBC interview. On the way down he didn't have much to say,
however on the way back we shared our beliefs with each other. He said, "You're
not a bad man. You're a very good man" and that I would not be able to change
his belief just as he would not be able to change mine. Though we disagreed
there, we still laughed, joked, and make small talk. At the end I told Iman that he
was welcome at the Lovelace home anytime and if he were in our neck of the
woods to swing in and sit awhile. Lastly, I had three Muslim ladies from Charlotte
who had intended to attend the Wednesday night service, however they got lost.
As the service ended they came in. They wanted to know what would make a
pastor do something like that. I replied that our beliefs were not the same. Seeing
that I could not persuade them, I merely stated what I believed, as did they and in
the end we were all glad we had met. Other responses from Muslims were a
collection of small books that have dismally attempted to show the similarities
between Islam and Christianity. The major dividing point I noticed in the meetings
with the Muslims was they respected Jesus, exalted Mary, and honor their book
and Muhammad their prophet, yet they do not accept Christ as Lord and Savior,
which is the foundation of everything in Christianity. They claim to read the Bible
along with the Koran, but if they did, they would see that Jesus is more than a
prophet. There are many nice, good Muslims out there, but they are deceived.
That is why I am at odds with the Koran, because it has deceived so many.
H: Did the local press treat you fairly?
C: The TV outlets and the local paper treated me with courtesy and respect. The
articles were well-rounded, but the letters to the editor didn't show any positive
points (and I know that some were sent in because the writers told me and some
sent me copies). The only qualm I have is with the twisted interpretation of a
speech I gave at a meeting in Forest City. The article contended that I stated,
"...that Southern, white Christians should be separated from other peoples." I
never said or meant that. No matter what color or race you are, if you are a
believer in Jesus Christ you are my brother or sister in the Lord. I have no
animosity toward those that do not share my Faith, however I do pray that they
might see the light.
H: Now I would like to take a moment to let you respond to some of the negative
feedback that you received:
I am a Catholic and surely you have also offended the Universal Church with a
slap across the face when we' striving desperately for peace! I believe your
theology and scriptural interpretation is somewhat off and eccentric! Surely,
there will be repercussions because of your narrow-mindedness and lack of
complete doctrinal studies which you most likely deserve!
C: As far as peace is concerned, we may co-exist with everyone on this plant, but
if I cling to the Bible there will never be peace in attempting to find common
ground with the lost who share a world view different than mine. I would state that
your view of Mary is somewhat off and your view of purgatory is eccentric. I can't
even find purgatory in my KJV Bible. Thank you for your compliment of being
narrow-minded, as I stand in obedience to Matthew 7:13-14, which states: "Enter
ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to
destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate,
and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
Did you know that Buddhists live lives more closely in tune with the teachings of
Christ than most Christians do?
C: First of all, the Koran is the "holy" book of the Muslims. The Tripitaka, which
has more than 100 volumes, is the "sacred" writings of the Buddhists. I think here
you are mistaken nonetheless. You are elevating works to be synonymous with
faith in Christ. Many Buddhists do not believe in God or a Supreme Being, which
is the central foundation for our Faith. They can't live according to Christ's
teaching, since Jesus Christ is not a part of their belief, nor is the Holy Spirit.
They cling to a false view that people can be reincarnated and have no soul or
spirit and that there is no Heaven or Hell. They claim their goal is to gain nirvana,
which is eliminate all desire, craving, and suffering. I have a strong desire and
craving to see my Master Jesus Christ. I know He said in 2 Timothy 3:12, "Yea,
and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." Thus to mark
out suffering means to not live by faith and Hebrews 11:6 says, "But without faith
it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is,
and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him."
You fulfill a stereotype of Southern, redneck, intolerance in the name of Jesus.
You are what Jesus called a stiff-necked people. You show NO understanding of
others who are different from you.
C: I am proud to be a Southerner as my roots are deep in Dixie. Likewise, they
are also deep in the Word of God. If by redneck you mean hardworking, I'll take
that as a compliment. Otherwise, it is to quibble in vain words. As far as being
stiff-necked, Jesus never said that. God said it to Moses in Exodus 33:3,5. I enjoy
living in harmony with different people. I strive to get along with everyone. When a
difference in faith arises, that means there is a difference in eternal destination,
therefore under the Great Commission I need to tell them the truth about Jesus.
As far as being different, the Koran teaches revenge in Surah 2:194. Jesus said
to forgive, not only seven times, but seventy times seven [Matt. 18:22].
God created all people. How they worship is not as important as the fact that they
do worship.
Your letter is shocking in that you are practicing the creed of Mystery Babylon of
Revelation 17, which is to have a one world religion. Jesus said in Matthew 5:17,
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to
destroy, but to fulfill." This being the case commandment number two of the 10
Commandments of Exodus 20:4-6 are still in force, which means it is not OK to
worship any graven image, or any other god. So if I worship the sky and claim it is
god, then your reasoning says that just because I worship a god means I will go to
Heaven. What absurdity. Get a Bible and read it.
H: What are some examples of positive feedback that you received?
Saw you on MSNBC. I thought you did a very good job representing Christianity
and explaining your views in calm, rational, and Biblical manor. Thanks for your
work which has brought Christian views to the main stream media and hopefully
will be a tool for Jesus to reach non-Christians.
Just want to say Thank you for your belief, stand, and unyielding faith. May you
be blessed, given extra courage and strength daily.
I wanted to say Thank you for speaking the truth. I see your sign has caused a lot
of controversy, but the thought I have is: Muslims do not respect our Bible and
can say anything they please, but we are restricted in saying anything about the
Koran. What's wrong with America? No matter what is said, the truth still stands,
the Bible is the infallible Word of God. Keep up the good work and may God richly
bless you and your church for standing for the truth.
I was just reading a story about your church on worldnetdaily.com. Just wanted to
drop you a short note to say thanks for your stand on the Word of God. I could
think of a lot of better uses for the Koran...It is amazing how folks preach
tolerance, yet the Koran demands they kill you and I for our beliefs. Once again,
thanks for your stand, stay strong in the faith.
H: Thank you for your time.
C: My pleasure. I hope this has helped shed some light on this event. God bless.
If you have any questions or comments about this topic, please email Pastor
Lovelace.
See the Sermon: Why The Koran Needs To Be Flushed that was preached on
May 22, 2005. In this Sermon (which later aired on WGMA 1520 AM) outlined why
the Koran is not God's Word.
See the Sermon: Are We Hugging Folks To Hell? That was preached on May 29,
2005 in Response To The Public Outcry About the Koran Sign that was posted
May 22-26, 2005 at the church.
be Flushed!" on your church sign on Saturday, May 21, 2005?
Creighton: I had read and heard reports that some of our soldiers in Guantanmao
Bay had flushed Korans in attempts to make the detainees speak. This was
reported by Newsweek, which caused rioting in the Muslim world. The reports, it
was said, were made in error and they were retracted and declared false, with
much apology by the government and media outlets. I looked at our blank sign,
pondered and prayed as to what message we could tell people in our community
for that week. I remembered the words of Condi Rice that appropriate actions
would be taken against any soldiers if the Koran flushing were true. To me, this
appeared as a government endorsement of the Muslim faith, in that they were
agreeing that Korans had been desecrated. Since these flushings were false, I
thought if it hadn't been done what better place for a book of lies. Thus hatched
from my mind the phrase. I called on a fellow member to help me place the letters
and the deed was done. So my motive was to let people in our community know
how much respect we had for the Koran.
H: Tell me about the kind of feedback your sign generated.
C: Our feedback did not really begin until Tuesday, May 24, 2005. Over the
weekend we had one attempt on Saturday to remove the word "Koran" in which
the letters were simply taken off the board and neatly stacked at the sign. The
word was returned due to our first amendment right of free speech. Also, there
were only two phone calls that were negative. Comments en masse did not begin
until the article in the Daily Courier. The comments overall were about 50/50.
H: About how many phone calls would you say that you received about the sign?
C: About 150. People from all over the continental United States left messages at
the church, at our home, in my room, and on my cell.
H: What other forms of feedback did you receive?
C: I would say that we received about 250 emails and about 150 letters, as well as
about $500 worth of donations and several books, some pro-Islam and some
anti-Islam, including a hardback copy of the Koran. Feedback from the local
community was mostly positive. I was invited by Jim Bishop to be on WCAB for an
interview. We took about 8 calls that morning from the community. 7 were positive
and 1 was neutral. I was also told by several people that they had written positive
editorials to the local paper, however only the negative ones appeared in the
paper, such is the intention of the media - to distort or slant in their favor. The
media has taken to peddling bad news, slanted news, and propaganda instead of
factual news.
H: Did you mean to offend anyone when you put up the sign?
C: Not intentionally, however I knew that liberals, Muslims, and ecumenical
Christians would find it offensive and politically incorrect. Thanks to the media,
they blew it out of proportion. As far as offense goes, what can be more offensive
than the gospel of Jesus Christ to a lost and dying world? Notice the words of
Paul in 1 Thess. 2:4-5, "But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the
gospel, even so we speak; no as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts.
For either at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloak of
covetousness; God is witness."
H: How did your church members respond to the sign?
C: While the media was bothersome for a few, our members stood behind me in
my stand. To those who were bothered by the media coverage, I offer my
apologies. We were tried by fire and through the crucible our church was brought
closer together.
H: Did you realize the full implications of the sign when you put it up?
C: No. I learned the world is a smaller place than we realized. I found that local
news can become global news in a New York minute. I realize as a pastor my
responsibility to God, to my congregation and that my actions, for good or ill, will
reflect on them.
H: If you had the chance to go back what would you do differently, if anything?
C: I do not regret the stand that I took, but I would have refrained from singling
out one false religion and instead lifted up the living and written Word of God.
H: Why did you take the sign down before the week's end?
C: Baptist officials on all levels contacted me expressing concern over our
missionaries overseas. They declared the doom of all outreach to Muslims and
the ignition of a new jihad. After prayer and consultation with local ministers I
decided that I should take the sign down on Wednesday. I didn't want my actions
to cause the death of anyone, Muslim or Christian. The sign had already made its
point by this time and I saw no reason, other than earthly pride, that I would have
needed to keep it up any longer.
H: Did you receive any personal threats as a result of the sign?
C: No.
H: Did you get any feedback from Muslims?
C: Yes. The first Muslim I learned about was Seema Riley of Rutherford county. I
respect Dr. Riley as a person, though we had not met, and even though we
disagree on the issue of Christianity v. Islam, I think we could get along fine. Dr.
Riley was offended, but I pray that through the dialogue that ensued that she was
able to see a Biblical viewpoint. Secondly, we met Iman, who drove us to
Greenville for the MSNBC interview. On the way down he didn't have much to say,
however on the way back we shared our beliefs with each other. He said, "You're
not a bad man. You're a very good man" and that I would not be able to change
his belief just as he would not be able to change mine. Though we disagreed
there, we still laughed, joked, and make small talk. At the end I told Iman that he
was welcome at the Lovelace home anytime and if he were in our neck of the
woods to swing in and sit awhile. Lastly, I had three Muslim ladies from Charlotte
who had intended to attend the Wednesday night service, however they got lost.
As the service ended they came in. They wanted to know what would make a
pastor do something like that. I replied that our beliefs were not the same. Seeing
that I could not persuade them, I merely stated what I believed, as did they and in
the end we were all glad we had met. Other responses from Muslims were a
collection of small books that have dismally attempted to show the similarities
between Islam and Christianity. The major dividing point I noticed in the meetings
with the Muslims was they respected Jesus, exalted Mary, and honor their book
and Muhammad their prophet, yet they do not accept Christ as Lord and Savior,
which is the foundation of everything in Christianity. They claim to read the Bible
along with the Koran, but if they did, they would see that Jesus is more than a
prophet. There are many nice, good Muslims out there, but they are deceived.
That is why I am at odds with the Koran, because it has deceived so many.
H: Did the local press treat you fairly?
C: The TV outlets and the local paper treated me with courtesy and respect. The
articles were well-rounded, but the letters to the editor didn't show any positive
points (and I know that some were sent in because the writers told me and some
sent me copies). The only qualm I have is with the twisted interpretation of a
speech I gave at a meeting in Forest City. The article contended that I stated,
"...that Southern, white Christians should be separated from other peoples." I
never said or meant that. No matter what color or race you are, if you are a
believer in Jesus Christ you are my brother or sister in the Lord. I have no
animosity toward those that do not share my Faith, however I do pray that they
might see the light.
H: Now I would like to take a moment to let you respond to some of the negative
feedback that you received:
I am a Catholic and surely you have also offended the Universal Church with a
slap across the face when we' striving desperately for peace! I believe your
theology and scriptural interpretation is somewhat off and eccentric! Surely,
there will be repercussions because of your narrow-mindedness and lack of
complete doctrinal studies which you most likely deserve!
C: As far as peace is concerned, we may co-exist with everyone on this plant, but
if I cling to the Bible there will never be peace in attempting to find common
ground with the lost who share a world view different than mine. I would state that
your view of Mary is somewhat off and your view of purgatory is eccentric. I can't
even find purgatory in my KJV Bible. Thank you for your compliment of being
narrow-minded, as I stand in obedience to Matthew 7:13-14, which states: "Enter
ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to
destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate,
and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
Did you know that Buddhists live lives more closely in tune with the teachings of
Christ than most Christians do?
C: First of all, the Koran is the "holy" book of the Muslims. The Tripitaka, which
has more than 100 volumes, is the "sacred" writings of the Buddhists. I think here
you are mistaken nonetheless. You are elevating works to be synonymous with
faith in Christ. Many Buddhists do not believe in God or a Supreme Being, which
is the central foundation for our Faith. They can't live according to Christ's
teaching, since Jesus Christ is not a part of their belief, nor is the Holy Spirit.
They cling to a false view that people can be reincarnated and have no soul or
spirit and that there is no Heaven or Hell. They claim their goal is to gain nirvana,
which is eliminate all desire, craving, and suffering. I have a strong desire and
craving to see my Master Jesus Christ. I know He said in 2 Timothy 3:12, "Yea,
and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." Thus to mark
out suffering means to not live by faith and Hebrews 11:6 says, "But without faith
it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is,
and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him."
You fulfill a stereotype of Southern, redneck, intolerance in the name of Jesus.
You are what Jesus called a stiff-necked people. You show NO understanding of
others who are different from you.
C: I am proud to be a Southerner as my roots are deep in Dixie. Likewise, they
are also deep in the Word of God. If by redneck you mean hardworking, I'll take
that as a compliment. Otherwise, it is to quibble in vain words. As far as being
stiff-necked, Jesus never said that. God said it to Moses in Exodus 33:3,5. I enjoy
living in harmony with different people. I strive to get along with everyone. When a
difference in faith arises, that means there is a difference in eternal destination,
therefore under the Great Commission I need to tell them the truth about Jesus.
As far as being different, the Koran teaches revenge in Surah 2:194. Jesus said
to forgive, not only seven times, but seventy times seven [Matt. 18:22].
God created all people. How they worship is not as important as the fact that they
do worship.
Your letter is shocking in that you are practicing the creed of Mystery Babylon of
Revelation 17, which is to have a one world religion. Jesus said in Matthew 5:17,
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to
destroy, but to fulfill." This being the case commandment number two of the 10
Commandments of Exodus 20:4-6 are still in force, which means it is not OK to
worship any graven image, or any other god. So if I worship the sky and claim it is
god, then your reasoning says that just because I worship a god means I will go to
Heaven. What absurdity. Get a Bible and read it.
H: What are some examples of positive feedback that you received?
Saw you on MSNBC. I thought you did a very good job representing Christianity
and explaining your views in calm, rational, and Biblical manor. Thanks for your
work which has brought Christian views to the main stream media and hopefully
will be a tool for Jesus to reach non-Christians.
Just want to say Thank you for your belief, stand, and unyielding faith. May you
be blessed, given extra courage and strength daily.
I wanted to say Thank you for speaking the truth. I see your sign has caused a lot
of controversy, but the thought I have is: Muslims do not respect our Bible and
can say anything they please, but we are restricted in saying anything about the
Koran. What's wrong with America? No matter what is said, the truth still stands,
the Bible is the infallible Word of God. Keep up the good work and may God richly
bless you and your church for standing for the truth.
I was just reading a story about your church on worldnetdaily.com. Just wanted to
drop you a short note to say thanks for your stand on the Word of God. I could
think of a lot of better uses for the Koran...It is amazing how folks preach
tolerance, yet the Koran demands they kill you and I for our beliefs. Once again,
thanks for your stand, stay strong in the faith.
H: Thank you for your time.
C: My pleasure. I hope this has helped shed some light on this event. God bless.
If you have any questions or comments about this topic, please email Pastor
Lovelace.
See the Sermon: Why The Koran Needs To Be Flushed that was preached on
May 22, 2005. In this Sermon (which later aired on WGMA 1520 AM) outlined why
the Koran is not God's Word.
See the Sermon: Are We Hugging Folks To Hell? That was preached on May 29,
2005 in Response To The Public Outcry About the Koran Sign that was posted
May 22-26, 2005 at the church.
Last updated on 8/28/2006 by Heather Lovelace
Danieltown Baptist Church
Why the Sign? An Interview with Pastor Lovelace
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